January 22, 2021: Remote Learning Update
This week, Don visits with Associate Superintendent for Instruction, Matt Larson, about the new one-year only 2021-22 Remote Learning Program.
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Video Transcript
Mindy Burbach 0:00
Hello, I’m Mindy Burbach, Communications Director for Lincoln Public Schools.
Don Mayhew 0:04
And I’m Don Mayhew, one of your Lincoln Board of Education members. Welcome to LPS board update. This show is an opportunity for us to learn more about what’s happening around Lincoln Public Schools and for you, our community to ask questions. Mindy. Let’s start off with a quick pandemic update after the latest directed health measures announced by the Lincoln Lancaster County Health Department on Tuesday, we have some changes to our athletic event protocols.
Mindy Burbach 0:28
Yes, so we have been working collaboratively with the Lincoln-Lancaster County Health Department to update our winter sports attendance protocols. We know there’s been some great interest in that. And they released a new directed health measure this week. And so we needed to adjust our protocols to match that DHM. So starting Monday, January 25, the following changes are going to be implemented in our winter activities. The number of fans for each competition is still limited by the venue capacity where it’s being held. But now that can include a maximum of four individuals for each participant. And it’s also expanded to include immediate family and grandparents before it was two and it was only household. Now we’ve been able to expand that to four. And it’s all immediate family and grandparents Now there are some venues that that we won’t be able to allow the four. But what that means for each sport is basketball in most cases will include four, wrestling duels and triangles will include four, wrestling tournaments, where there’s four or more teams might be zero to two — it’s really event specific as to where it’s being held and how many teams are invited. Swim meets that are either virtually or duals will be one, swim meets where there’s more than two teams again will be zero, we just don’t have the space in our pools to allow for that safe spacing, and then diving competitions will be two. Again, we encourage everyone to check with our high schools athletic website for more information. And we will be adjusting again we’ll be watching we’ll be working with the health department we’ll make those adjustments as needed based on venue and where we are on the risk dial in our community.
Don Mayhew 1:58
After 10 weeks of red on the risk dial, it was comforting to know that we are we seem to be trending in the right direction. But we are still orange there is still need. This isn’t the time to let up. We still need to be following the the directed health measures and making sure that we’re wearing our masks and washing our hands and social distancing.
Mindy Burbach 2:16
Exactly. And I don’t think anybody thought we were gonna even make it through the fall sports season. Now we’re through our winter sports season. We really want to protect our athletes and our students athletes chances to go to state competition. The way we do that is we keep following those directed health measures. So we reduce the risk of spread so our athletes have a chance to finish their season.
Don Mayhew 2:35
Very good. All right. Thank you for that update Mindy. Last summer Lincoln Public Schools was faced with the momentous challenge of building a remote learning option that allowed for great flexibility for families as students may need to move frequently between in-person and remote learning. This is how LPS chose the remote learning option for the 2020 to 2021 school year. Even though there is a vaccine on the horizon, there are still many variables and uncertainties surrounding COVID-19 and vaccine availability for students. So staff at Lincoln Public Schools are working to develop a one year only remote learning program for the 2021-2022 school year. This will be an important option for families as we continue to navigate the pandemic. Joining us to visit more about the preliminary plans for the one year remote learning program is Matt Larson, the associate superintendent for instruction, Matt, you’ve been becoming a staple on this program with all the plates that you are continuing to keep spinning. I really appreciate you taking the time to come and talk with us about this program. Thanks for joining us.
Matt Larson 3:41
Oh, thank you, Mr. Mayhew. Glad glad to do it.
Don Mayhew 3:45
All right. First off, Matt, we know that there are still a lot of details that need to be finalized before school begins next fall. Let’s start with what have we learned from last spring and last fall to build this new remote learning program for next year.
Matt Larson 4:01
We’ve learned a lot. You know, if we go clear back to last spring, people may recall that it was really an asynchronous model. We were not providing live instruction. And we learned that that was not as effective as we wanted it to be. So this school year we moved into a synchronous model. Teachers were providing hybrid instruction. They were teaching students who were in person in their classroom at the same time they were teaching students who are at home zooming in remotely. And one of the lessons we learned through this year while that model was great for the current year, when a lot of students might have to quarantine or moving in and out of instruction. But it put a tremendous burden on classroom teachers It was a lot of work to, to plan for both in person and remote learners to simultaneously teach in those two different formats and environments and placements for students. And we heard from parents and we did a parent survey this fall, looking forward to next year and ask parents what they thought about do you prefer the way we’re doing it? Now? Would you prefer a more dedicated approach with with only remote students and teachers who are teaching only remote learners and, and more parents preferred a dedicated approach to remote learning and certainly our teachers would prefer that because it would allow them to focus on one thing at a time. And so based on our experience, this year, the data we were gathering from parents and teachers, we made the decision to move to a remote learning program for next year, where teachers will either teach students in person or they’ll teach students remotely, but they won’t teach both at the same time.
Don Mayhew 5:47
All right, so this is going to be a new program, what is this one year remote learning program going to look like?
Matt Larson 5:54
So right now, you can get the details by going to our website, and you can read through the expectations and what we know about it right now. You can press a button and you can register your child for the remote learning program for next year. It will be very different than remote learning right now. Right now, students who are remote learners are really zooming into a classroom throughout the day that exists in their in-person school, this will be a separate program, it will sit to the side. So to be it’s almost like its own building, except there is no building. And so parents need to register. We know it’s it’s it’s an early registration period. But we need that for our planning purposes. As we move forward, we won’t be able to offer all courses not all courses can be effectively delivered in a remote learning format. But we’ll focus on core courses with a selection of electives from kindergarten through high school. And we’ll have teachers who focus on remote learners and then other teachers who focus on students in person. And there may be some teachers who have certain periods that they teach in-person and certain periods that they teach remote. As we work out schedules for for teachers as we move forward.
Don Mayhew 7:09
One of the things we’ve talked about is the complexity the amount of work required to offer remote programs. And we talked about this last spring and last summer, that it’s not just flipping a switch, there’s actually quite a bit of work that goes into it. One of my favorite examples has been talking about several years ago, when we decided to move to a digital curriculum. And it took more than three years of planning several more years to actually fully implement. When you’ve got this many students with this many learning needs across all grade levels across the district. And taking everything into account. It’s actually quite a bit of work to to put this together. So with all that, as kind of the background, one of the questions that we have been getting on Facebook, before the show is, why did we just do this style of remote learning in the first place?
Matt Larson 8:00
Well, that’s a great question. And there are two primary reasons that we didn’t do this in the first place, and they are time and money. When we determined that we had to do remote learning this school year, we were already into the early part of the summer. And by that point in time, all of our staffing for our in-person schools was established, it was done. And it wasn’t we didn’t have the time to move teachers to a different program, make those adjustments to schedules, we actually typically begin the staffing process for our buildings right now. And in fact, we’re going to delay it this year, so that we have time to appropriately staff, the virtual or remote learning program for next year. So there was a time factor that didn’t make it possible to do. And the second issue is, is cost. It’s not a one-to-one, you just don’t move one teacher from in-person to remote, you always need a few more teachers as you open a new program or building. That’s always the case where in the next couple years, we’re going to open new schools. And while some of those teachers will come from existing buildings will also have to hire some additional staff. It’s just the nature of how it works. And that’s certainly true with a remote learning program as well. So we’re fortunate to be able to do this particular program for one year, because we were receiving some relief dollars from the federal government, one-time monies that are in part targeted specifically at programs like this to help school districts get through the pandemic by offering programs such as remote learning. So it’s with the infusion of those relief dollars and the time we have to plan that we can now set up a remote learning program where teachers and students are dedicated to that to that learning format. And we can provide training for teachers will have that time get teachers who are interested in this sort of teaching have you know they’ve experienced it this year, they’d like to continue that Have a lot of advantages as we move forward now.
Don Mayhew 10:03
Sure. Now we first announced this program last week. And at the time, we initially said that this was only going to be for students in grades 3 through 12. And then we have since made the change that we’re going to make the program available for children, who are also kindergarten through second grade. And I remember when we were talking about the digital curriculum and putting devices into students hands, we also initially drew the line in third grade, there seems to be a natural breaking point there for us. So first question is, why was our first recommendation for grades 3 through 12? And then after that, why did we decide to change and add the kindergarten through second grades,
Matt Larson 10:43
we were originally focusing on grades 3 through 12 based on our experience this year, we know that remote learning was more effective for intermediate grade elementary students, and then middle school and high school students than it was for primary grade students, students in grades K, 1 and 2. Those primary grades are foundational students are learning how to read they’re learning how to do mathematics, they benefit from that in-person interaction with both their teacher and their peer students. It’s just the most effective way to deliver instruction at the primary grade level. However, one of the things we learned when that announcement was made, as you pointed out last Friday, we had a number of parents provide feedback, we said, you know, we understand all of that. But we’re still concerned about the pandemic. And we would really like to see the district continue to offer a remote learning option and in grades K, 1 and 2. And as we always do, we listened carefully to parent feedback. And so we made the decision to go ahead and have the remote learning program for next year, go from kindergarten through grade 12, we would still recommend to parents who have a child that will be a kindergartner next year, first and second grade encourage them to have their child attend school in person. We believe that’s the most effective environment, we also believe that in person learning is safe. One of the things we’ve learned this year is that we can do in-person learning, we can do it safely, there has been no major in-school spread of the virus. And so the school is really a safe place for students to be. But we know some students have underlying health conditions or there are particular concerns. So we’re going to provide that K-2 program as well. And we’ll do as effective a job as we can in the remote learning environment. And we think having dedicated remote learners and dedicated remote teachers will help us make that be as effective as we can in those primary grades.
Don Mayhew 12:45
So let’s talk about this for a second. Because I think it’s an important point to make. And I think we’ve been very clear about this, if we were going to start from scratch and have a deliberate process to design a remote program, it would probably take several years. And it would probably look different than what we’re doing right now we are feeling is right now, in school education is more effective. And we feel it’s safe, but especially more effective than what we’re doing with remote. We’re doing the best we can with remote. But it is something that we have largely been doing on the fly in real time, so to speak, trying to be responsive, you know, to the needs of our kids in the world that we live in right now. But again, if we were going to design a program that we think would be ideal for kids, it would probably look different than what we’re doing right now.
Matt Larson 13:35
That’s absolutely true. It would, but we don’t have that luxury right now we’re doing we’re doing as you said the best we can to respond to the pandemic, to provide, you know, assurances to parents and teachers and students make them feel good about the learning experiences and opportunities they have as we move forward. And so we’re building up pretty quickly. And and we continue to learn and listen to both teachers and parents and make the adjustments that we need to make as as we move forward. And we’ll continue to do that over the course of this spring and summer. And of course next school year as we move forward.
Don Mayhew 14:11
Continuing to learn and improve. So in this in this program for next year, are all of our courses going to be offered.
Matt Larson 14:18
We will not offer all of our courses. I mean, one of the advantages to the way we did it this year was students were zooming in to their classes. So they in a sense, had access to every single course. But since we’re setting up a separate program, we’re gonna focus on core classes with some electives, but it’s simply not possible from a budget standpoint, or a planning standpoint, to offer everything that we could offer an in person school, for example, you simply can’t do a swimming class remotely. It’s hard to do auto technology in a remote format that we’re going to offer Of course, you know In high school US history, but we won’t offer a different version of US history won’t, for example, offer AP US history, we’re simply going to focus on on the core, trim those offerings down a bit. So we can more efficiently and effectively staff it without adding a whole lot of additional staff every time you offer a different version of a course or multiple courses, you you increase the complexity of that program, and then it begins to require more staff as well.
Don Mayhew 15:31
Mm hmm. Okay, so let’s now let’s talk a little bit about special ed. And I remember when we very first had to go 100% remote. One of the things that we were trying to figure out was how to bring along our special ed students we talked about this all means all we’re not going to start a program for some of our kids. But then, of course, there are the questions of effectiveness with the remote program. We did get some specific questions on Facebook from Emily Wray Stander. And she asked if a student has a 504 plan or an Individualized Education Plan, will accommodations be honored in a new remote learning program?
Matt Larson 16:10
The answer is yes, of course, we will honor those. I think the big question that that parents, in collaboration with their child’s IEP manager or the building Special Education Coordinator, need to have a conversation about is that while the district is offering an opportunity for students to participate in remote learning, the question we have to ask is whether or not that placement in remote learning is the most appropriate placement. When we think about the most appropriate placement for students, we’re really talking about the entire system, both the programs that we offer in person, and the programs that we offer remotely. And for some students with disabilities, the remote learning program may not be the most appropriate placement. And that’s a conversation we encourage parents to have with their child’s classroom teacher, IEP manager, building special education coordinator to make that decision. But certainly students who would end up in the remote learning program would have the supports they wouldn’t need according to their IEP as we move forward with this.
Don Mayhew 17:19
So as a follow up question, then how does this program follow the requirements in the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act?
Matt Larson 17:27
Just exactly how I outline because we will follow the IEP and and that decision will be made with the parents involvement with the teacher building Special Education Coordinator, they will determine as a part of that process, what the most appropriate placement is. And that’s really what the special education program is all about. What is the most appropriate placement for a student that will best meet that student’s needs, provide that students with the supports they they need so that they can be successful, and continue to learn and access educational opportunities.
Don Mayhew 18:03
Bottom line, whether your student is special ed or not, parents are going to have choices to make we feel that the educational experience in the classroom is best. But it’s an uncertain world. And if parents are not feeling safe, then they will have options for them at home. But it is probably going to be a reduced offering. I realized that’s not a question. But basically that would that would summarize, I think were the choices the parents have to make.
Matt Larson 18:29
That’s true. And of course, we’ve always had a homebound program for students with high medical needs who can’t go to school, that program continues again, it would be a decision that would be made collaboratively with the parents and Special Education Coordinator, IEP manager would work that out is yet another option to provide educational services to students if it’s determined that that’s the most appropriate placement.
Don Mayhew 18:57
One of the benefits of this year’s program was the flexibility for students who may need to quarantine. What challenges does that create
Matt Larson 19:06
a lot of challenges. We post on our website, the number of students who are in quarantine at any given time. And one of the reasons we designed the program that we had this year was we knew as we’re going through the heart of the pandemic, that there would be a significant number of students who might need to quarantine and we needed a flexible system so that students could move in and out of quarantine. And at any given time, we’ve had more than 1000 students in quarantine. And that that work because students were really zooming into their existing classes. As we set up a dedicated remote learning program, you have to think about it as if it were a separate school even though it doesn’t have a building and you simply can’t move. I mean, the example I would use is, you know, we have two high schools think of two high schools in the district. We couldn’t move 1000 students In a given week from one high school to another, because there wouldn’t be room for those students in that building, there wouldn’t be teachers in that building to serve students. So as we move to a more dedicated remote program, we can’t move the quarantine students back and forth as easily. There’s good news though, we have every reason to believe that as teachers are vaccinated is other members of the community are vaccinated, the community spread will come down. And in our community, fewer students are going to, you know, acquire the virus quarantine will be less necessary than it currently is. And the rules on quarantine have also changed where it used to be, you had to be quarantine for 14 days, that’s now down to 10. And in some cases, as few as seven days if you produce a negative test, or have some other conditions that are met. So we don’t believe that quarantine will be the issue next year that it currently is. But we simply can’t move students back and forth as we did this year, because it’d be like moving them back and forth between two physical buildings. And we just may not have the teacher or the course offerings in those different settings.
Don Mayhew 21:11
So is that why then we are asking parents to commit for a semester.
Matt Larson 21:16
That’s exactly why we’re asking parents to make that commitment for one semester at a time. Now we understand that there may be extenuating or unique circumstances that come up. And of course, we’ll work with parents in those situations as they arise.
Don Mayhew 21:32
One of the things that that might not resonate with folks is your analogy of people moving from high school to high school, which makes perfect sense. But for a remote program, there’s not a there’s not the need for physical space. And so the moving back and forth, maybe seem counterintuitive to folks. But there’s also the concern of you know, educational continuity, a student is having a certain relationship conversation with the teacher switches to the other program switches back. And then there’s there’s a follow up loss of continuity. And those kinds of issues. Could you speak to that concern a little bit?
Matt Larson 22:10
Absolutely. I mean, that’s another advantage of how we’ve done it this year is that we’ve, students have been able to stay with that same teacher. So they’ve had, as you’ve described it, that continuity of instruction, they’ve had that relationship that’s been built with that teacher, if we were to move them to the dedicated remote learning program, they would encounter a different teacher, you and so that teacher would not know that particular student, there be a process of building that relationship all over again, that teacher wouldn’t know that students particular needs. So you know, that student might need a special education resource teacher, and then we’d have to find that staff member to to join that particular virtual class. So there are a lot of issues with respect to that. And you’re right that there isn’t a physical building. But you know, we’re going to have so many, for example, fourth grade, remote learning teachers, and they may already all have 28 students and in their classroom, and we can’t suddenly add another 50 because then we start to increase those class sizes for those remote learning teachers. And then that lowers the the effectiveness of that classroom instruction. And that’s something we don’t want to see happen either.
Don Mayhew 23:21
Sure, the fact that students who are remote teachers still have only so much bandwidth in terms of the number of students that they can reasonably maintain those kinds of conversations with.
Matt Larson 23:31
Yep.
Don Mayhew 23:32
Okay, now, we talked about limited or classroom offerings. What about extra curricular activities? Will remote students be able to participate in extracurriculars?
Matt Larson 23:42
we know that co curricular and extracurricular activities are important and at the middle level, and at the high school level, students are going to be dual enrolled in the remote program, and their in-person school. And so for example, at the high school level, subject to it working with your schedule, that’s that’s always a factor even if we’re all in person. If a student is a remote learner, but wants to go to their high school to be a member of the marching band, that’ll be an option if if a student is a remote learner but wants to be a part and try out and be a part of the basketball team, that will be an option. And that’ll be the case for both middle school and high school. at the elementary level. Typically, we don’t have that sort of level of extracurricular or co curricular activities. So at the elementary level, that that’s essentially is not an issue or concern.
Don Mayhew 24:37
So we’ve talked about how we have learned as we’ve been running this program, I would expect that students and families have also been learning as they have been going through, you know, remote type of experiences, what types of students will be successful in a remote learning program?
Matt Larson 24:56
that’s a that’s a great question and it can help parents make decision about what might be the most appropriate placement for their student actually. One of the things we’ve learned and we’ve gotten this feedback from parents and from teachers is, you know, students who are independent learners, students who don’t need a lot of one on one support don’t need a lot of direct adult supervision typically do better. In the remote learning format. Students who don’t need a lot of socialization, you know, there’s more socialization, if you’re in person school, if you’re there physically, with your peers. Now, there’ll be some in a remote setting, but certainly not as much. So that that’s a factor, you’ve got to be able to concentrate, you know, what our survey, say our parents believe our students are spending about the right amount of time on zoom each day, but you still have to be able to concentrate. You know, as adults, many of us are on a lot of zoom calls each day. And we know it takes a certain level of concentration and focus to keep that up day after day. So that’s a question to ask yourself and think about, can your student maintain that level of focus? How comfortable is your student with technology? I mean, you no matter how well the technology works, there’s always hiccups. And so, you know, is your student comfortable when things don’t go right? And you know, you have to make an adjustment to make sure things work. That’s another factor to think about. And, of course, students do better if they just need fewer support services. They’re more successful as remote learners as well. So those are some of the things to think about.
Don Mayhew 26:33
What are student expectations in the program?
Matt Larson 26:37
Well, student expectations are going to be kind of like they would be if you were in person, right, you have to follow our code of conduct, including the the dress code, we expect you to attend each and every day, each class that you have attendance is going to be taken. You might not be on zoom for an entire class period. But you’ll be given some assignments to work offline, we would expect students to complete that work independent practice homework just like you would, if you’re in person, we’re going to expect students to have their cameras on and one of the lessons we’ve learned this year from teachers is the instruction is a whole lot more effective when teachers can see their students faces and their reaction just like you could if you were in a classroom. So those are some of the expectations that we’ll have in the remote learning program.
Don Mayhew 27:28
Why are we this is one of the questions we’ve been getting from parents, why do we need families to decide and register so early?
Matt Larson 27:35
That that’s a great question. And we know that’s a challenge to make a decision right now. But the issue is one of planning. As we talked about a little bit earlier, we’re typically going through our staffing process right now. We’re delaying that we’re giving parents until February the 19th. To to make a decision as to whether or not they think they want their child to be in the remote learning program next year. And we need that for our planning purposes. So that we can begin to average know how many fifth grade teachers we need, how many middle school English teachers will need, how many high school math teachers we need, because then we need to go through our processes of making those teacher assignments either within our existing buildings or moving teachers completely to their full assignment being a remote students. All of that takes significant time. And we need to remember that based on some of our survey, results from parents, we could have 4000 or more students in this particular program across grades K 12. That would be our largest facility in some sense. Right? Right. Right now, Lincoln High and East I have around 2400 students this would be a, a program with more students than even Lincoln High and East have in them. And so you’re we’re talking about a couple of 100 or more teachers, we need to get you know, a principal in place, make sure we have the right number of special education teachers in place with the right level of expertise to support the students who are in the program, just a lot of decisions that need to be made as we move forward so that we can provide as high a quality a remote learning program as we can possibly provide. We know people will want to change their mind as we move forward. And we’ve always had processes in place in our district, for parents who want to move their child from one school building to another. And we’ll follow similar processes we right now for physical buildings called the permit process. And, and so we’ll follow a similar process if people need to change their mind, and it’s not the end of the first semester.
Don Mayhew 29:52
And I think that’s a partial answer to my next question, too, but I want to go ahead and ask it. What is your advice to parents who feel that they just don’t have enough information yet to make a decision.
Matt Larson 30:01
And we appreciate that this that this is a difficult decision to make at this time. And so I think if if I were trying to make this decision for my own child, and I thought, you know, I was going to be concerned about the pandemic come next fall, I would probably make the decision now to enroll my student, and then see what happens as spring and summer move forward. And then if I change my mind, you know, go through that process. And if there’s room in an in-person school, then that adjustment could be made.
Don Mayhew 30:40
All right, that makes so much sense. Matt, thank you, again, for taking the time to talk with us. I appreciate we’ve been getting a lot of questions, this is a brand new thing. It’s still still a lot of moving parts, a lot of decisions to be made. But I appreciate you taking the time to come and talk with us about it today. Thank you for that. And as always, for all the work that you do for our kids.
Matt Larson 31:01
Thank you.
Mindy Burbach 31:04
Don, another great opportunity to visit with Dr. Larson to get more information about the new remote learning program that we are developing, what are some of the things you took away from that conversation?
Don Mayhew 31:14
Dr. Larson is such a smart guy and such a hard worker, I love talking with him about these things, and and everything really, one of the things that really stuck out with me, though, and I think we’ve been saying this fairly consistently, is that we’re doing the best we can with our remote offerings. We know that it is not what what we would hope that it would normally be the best educational experience that students are going to get is is in person in the classroom. But we are trying to provide those options in those choices for parents, in a very uncertain world.
Mindy Burbach 31:49
We are and you know, we have a process in place where we institute new programs or new curriculum, we have this process we follow, we haven’t been able to do that for remote learning. And you can also learn a little bit where we look at the data, we look at information we gather, you know, we have to do staffing, and that takes time. And you just can’t do that right now in the remote learning program. So I’m so proud of our school district for trying to build something on the fly based on changing information. It’s constantly changing. And I think our staff is doing a great job,
Don Mayhew 32:19
our staff is doing a great job. There are a lot of things that are still changing. And parents are also are going through a lot of changes. And Dr. Larson talked about this as well, is that we recognize that there’s a lot of information for parents, and we are starting out with our asks. But we just want parents to to do their best we would ask them to do their best, we’ll work with our families to do what’s best for our kids. What was what was one of the other things are stuck out for you.
Mindy Burbach 32:43
You know, just that we understand there’s a lot of information coming out there to families and like you said they’re trying to make a decision, and that we’re going to work with families, we understand that that circumstances change. We already as a school district have a process in place to help families when changes happen in their life. And the other thing that really stood out to me was that with our special education programming, our goal is to help students with their individualized education plans, and we’re going to continue to follow that process. And so remote learning might be the best place for them or it might not be but we’re going to continue to work with families on that decision making.
Don Mayhew 33:20
All right, well, again, a good conversation. If people have follow up questions, what should they do?
Mindy Burbach 33:26
Um, there’s still a lot of details that do need to be finalized with the new remote learning program. If they want to learn more information, they can go to our new website, our rlp.lps.org or they can just go to our website lps.org. And they can click on the remote learning program. If they have additional questions. There’s contact information on that page specific to what area they might have questions on, or they can click on the blue contact us button on our website, ask the question and we’ll get it routed to the right staff member to help them make that decision.
Don Mayhew 33:56
And then also please join us for our LPS live board preview on Facebook Tuesday, January 26 at 5pm before our regular board of education meeting. You can find the agenda for our board meeting on the website. Mindy, as always, thank you for your excellent work and everybody watching. Thank you for joining us today. Have a good night.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Updated January 22, 2021
